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NICK EICHER, HOST: It’s Friday, July 25th. Glad to have you along for today’s edition of The World and Everything in It. Good morning, I’m Nick Eicher.
MYRNA BROWN, HOST: And I’m Myrna Brown. It’s Culture Friday and joining us now is author and speaker Katie McCoy. Good morning, Katie.
KATIE MCCOY: Good morning, Happy Friday.
BROWN: Happy Friday!
Well, I have gone back and forth on this topic. Do we talk about the kiss cam on Culture Friday or not? And then, you know, I just thought we have to, because, well, Dr. Mohler wrote about it in his WORLD Opinions piece, and seemingly a good portion of the world’s population has seen that infamous video of that couple.
So Katie, I’d like to get your take on it. But first I want to read just a quick interesting quote from Dr. Mohler’s article. He writes:
“Isn’t it interesting that our culture is still capable of coming to the quick moral judgment that adultery is wrong? The prophets of moral relativism want that kiss cam video to be unremarkable—just two autonomous human beings doing what autonomous human beings—one male, one female—can do. But it just isn’t possible to look at the video without moral judgment.”
So Katie, why has this become a cultural obsession?
MCCOY: This is both a fascinating and devastating story we saw this week. First, there’s that moment of shock. In our social media–driven, reality TV culture, it’s almost voyeuristic—a glimpse of catching someone doing something wrong, or something they’re at least ashamed of.
But then, let it set in: this represents one or two families that have really been torn apart. What we don’t see is all the fallout—the children of this CEO or this human resources director. We don’t see the generational harm. We don’t see the erosion of trust in family relationships.
There are a couple of other things Dr. Mohler pointed out in his piece. First, isn’t it fascinating that in our very sexually liberated culture, people instinctively recognize that adultery is wrong, even disqualifying? This CEO resigned from his job not just because of shame or public attention on the company. If it were no big deal, why resign?
This shows us something that goes all the way back to Genesis 3: shame. Who among us hasn’t felt it? When we feel shame, what do we do? We hide. We try to run away. In that split second, they were found out—and what did they do? They ducked, turned away. They didn’t want their faces seen. They couldn’t face the world knowing the world knew what they’d done.
No matter how educated, technologically advanced, or medically healthy we become, we will never outgrow the conscience. We will never evolve past the effect shame has on the human conscience. Because of that, we will never outgrow or evolve past the need for a Savior—to cover our shame with a true covering that lasts.
That’s what we see in Genesis 3. It’s what the gospel story is about. It’s what Paul tells us in Romans. This really is the beginning of a gospel conversation. If you want to talk about this with your friends or neighbors, ask: Why did they hide? Would you hide? If our sexual lives are just about two consenting adults and it doesn’t matter, then why would people feel the need to hide in shame?
It shows our need for forgiveness, for justification, for a Savior.
EICHER: You know, Katie, I wonder whether it’s possible that what we were seeing in that video was a couple of people trying to have it both ways—trying, in effect, to lead this double life—understanding that the whole thing was predicated upon concealment, successful concealment.
And that what we saw in the video was not shame, per se, but a recognition that their cover was blown. And what they were realizing in the instant was: we can no longer have it both ways. It’s over.
MCCOY: In the moment, they probably just felt caught. But like my mama used to say: you can pick your sin, but you can’t pick your consequences. What likely hit them like a freight train was that they had been found out, and now the consequences are out of their hands—as they are with all sin.
EICHER: I wanted to ask you about this. This was a piece that appeared in The Wall Street Journal. It turns out that you can buy just about anything on Etsy—including, apparently, magic.
A growing number of young adults are turning to so-called Etsy witches. Etsy witches. They’re paying for spells that promise love, job offers, even sunny weather for a wedding. The prices on this range from seven dollars to a couple hundred. Business, apparently, is booming.
So Katie, do you think that this is a sign people are desperate? Is it a sign of spiritual confusion? Is it all of the above—or something else that I can’t think of right now?
MCCOY: Nick, the rise of spiritualism—interest in Wicca, crystals, tarot cards, horoscopes, and now “Etsy witches”—is so indicative of this next generation. Writers and cultural commentators have been marveling at the exponential rise of these businesses among Gen Z. For instance, it went from a $2 billion to a $12 billion industry in just about three years. One study said around 65% of people between the ages of 14 and 29 read their horoscope daily.
When I mention this to adults, they think that’s insane—something from the ’80s or ’90s that they did way back when. But it’s had a big revival.
There are a few reasons for that. First, it demonstrates the human impulse to connect with something greater—to explain the world. In philosophy or theology, we’d call this the “meta-narrative”—the grand story of history. How do I make sense of my life in that story?
Generation Z, as we’ve discussed, includes a growing group called the “nones”—N-O-N-E-S—those who are religiously unaffiliated. But people don’t stop worshiping. They don’t stop asking big existential questions. So many young people are trying to find answers in spiritualism, specifically witchcraft.
It amazed me to find that the hashtag “WitchTok” on TikTok has about 8 million posts. This is huge among young people.
It shows a few things about this generation. First, chronic and widespread anxiety. They’re trying to latch onto something that gives them a sense of control, a way to make the world make sense. It’s a lot easier to chalk up a bad breakup to “he’s a Gemini and I’m a Sagittarius” than to face real emotional growth or the pain of rejection.
Also, this generation is deeply spiritual, but they’ve grown up hearing that organized religion is oppressive and controlling. So they’re trying to create a DIY spirituality—do-it-yourself religion. It gives them a sense of autonomy, control, and a feeling of being connected to something bigger.
From a biblical worldview, the biggest takeaway is what Solomon said: there is nothing new under the sun. These things cycle in and out, but what they reveal about human nature is exactly the same.
BROWN: Well Katie, we had a quiet but significant change in Olympic policy. Both the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committees have updated rules aimed at keeping men out of women’s sports. The move aligns with an executive order by President Trump, and governing bodies like USA Fencing are already falling in line.
One female fencer was recently disqualified for refusing to compete against a male. So Katie, how do you take this? And do you think it’s permanent—or just rooted in the current mood?
MCCOY: I hope it’s permanent. Fifteen years ago, people who came out as transgender were called brave for going against the grain of culture. Now, it’s considered brave just to say something rooted in common sense and basic biology.
We’re seeing a return to natural law—the idea that the physical world tells us something about who we are. This shows up most clearly in cases related to sports, which seems to be ground zero for a lot of these cultural issues. I hope we’ll keep seeing this kind of clarity in areas like bathrooms, domestic abuse shelters, rape shelters, and women’s prisons.
People talk about a “vibe shift.” I think a lot of that is people feeling more confident speaking out. Two years ago, the big tipping point seemed to be Target. When Target came out with all of that pride-themed paraphernalia and clothing, people felt it was a bridge too far. Target listened—they backed off.
We’re seeing this in sphere after sphere: people speak up, and companies listen, because at the end of the day, they have to make money.
The Olympics is no different. They have sponsors, commercials. When you and I make our opinions known, it really does have power.
Before we move on, I have to mention the Nike ad when Scottie Scheffler won the Open Championship. Nike posted two photos. One was Scheffler kneeling with his little boy and a golf club—it said, “You’ve already won,” meaning he’s a dad, he’s got a wonderful family. Then the next photo said, “But another Masters doesn’t hurt either.”
It was a beautiful ad. People loved it and said, “Yes, more of this, Nike.”
But this is the same company that, two years ago, gave trans-identifying influencer Dylan Mulvaney sports bras—and got huge backlash for it.
So don’t think your dollar doesn’t matter. It does. Collectively, all of our dollars influence what industries, businesses, and entire sectors of society do.
BROWN: Author and speaker Katie McCoy, I’m glad to catch up with you, and we’ll do it again next week, too.
MCCOY: Thank you both.
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